Keeping with tradition here I will be live blogging the debate again. There will be a potential early stop because I have a business call at 7 pt. It ought to be shot but you never know.
Tonight's debate has shifted from a domestic policy topic to foreign policy. This is due to the Paris attacks. Sanders has registered a protest at the last second change. I see both sides to this one. Sanders is stronger with the domesticated debate or he gets better traction at least with the public. The foreign policy debate might hurt his numbers. It also seems slightly exploitive too.
Here we go.
Sanders: let's kill ISIS, let's fix the economy. corrupt campaign finance.
Clinton: root out violent jihadism. Will lay out what to do to stop terrorism with allies.
O'Malley: We can adapt and with others to kill the terrorists. Fresh approach for policy.
IS flight is going badly, losing ground:
Clinton: IS must be defeated. wah. good grief. US will not fight IS directly. Help, but support, not American on ground. blames BUSH. Then blames Iraqi leadership. Says wanted to equip syrian rebels. NOT America's fight.
O'Malley critique: This is America's fight. Must be with collaboration. IS is evil. failure of human intelligence. role in world is be strong at home, but also to confront evil in the world. america must rise to the occasion.
Sanders: climate change greatest threat even than IS. The bulk of the responsibility is our fault, invasion of iraq caused this. US cannot do this alone. Lead international coalition inclusive of muslim nations. Iraq invasion worst foreign policy decision in recent history.
Clinton: mumble, mumble, terrorism. iraq invasion was mistake, but she still voted for it.
Sander criticism of sec state: disagreement with clinton. regime change bad. sanders is more conservative?!
O'Malley: needs better spies.
Clinton: defensive. this is complicated. blahblah. US doesn't have a role in many of the Middle East conflicts. this is complex esp in middle east.
Sanders: ME very complicated, but with coalition needs to have Iran and other muslim war. brushing over differences between sunnis and shiites.
Clinton: being unfair to jordan. others like turkey need to clear up where they stand.
Libya, day after lesson:
Clinton: Did have a plan. but what out happened after? I'd say she didn't think it through well. She's sounding like the Friedman Gap guy.
O'Malley: Libya a mess, Iraq is a mess. Afghanistan is a mess. Syria is a mess. US has greatest military. bad at rebuilding nations.
Clinton: we did a BIG investment (but a shitty job).
Sanders: long term consequences, PTSD and harmed soldiers. Do NOT turn back on soldiers.
Rubio on radical islam:
Clinton: wank. can't handle radical islam label. cannot understand IS or extremists.
Sanders: term isn't important. groups want to go back to pre modern systems.
O'Malley: should be called radical jihadis. American muslims are our first line of defense.
French President called this act of war, not declare war on IS:
Clinton: have authorization for war on terrorism, not comfortable though for president to work without congress.
Refugees:
Sanders: most powerful military. less than 10% on terrorism. anti nukes. major reform. more cost effective. cold war is over. OMG. this is stupid. THe problem here is the strategic holiday is over. stupid.
Sanders (refugees): moral requirement to help.
O'Malley: 65k refugees. calls IS ISIL. we can make room. war has changed. more special ops.
Clinton (how to screen refugees to keep them safe): 65k if we can screen. do need to take a look a hard look at defense budget. challenges in south china sea. problems with russia. drone sub nuclear weapon cited (see tomorrow's blog here!)
BREAK.
Sanders seems to have missed the fact the world changed AGAIN with it comes to the military situation. Clinton mentions Russia but doesn't mention Ukraine. the Donbass war is heating up again (artillery, etc) and she's talking about a drone sub as the thing to worry about. Yes, its a worry, but they are fighting on the ground.
Clinton's comment that this is NOT america's fight is a bad sound bite.
Financial squeeze on middle class:
Clinton (how to pay for social improvements): not middle class do not pay! good gawd. the real incomes haven't increased since *1975* lady. will tax rich and be fiscal responsible.
O'Malley (how to pay): raise sales tax. raised income tax for rich. claims best schools in country. eliminate entitlement: lower income for rich and capital gains.
Sanders: redistribution of wealth in a bad way from middle class to 1%. end corporate loopholes. tax on wall street speculation. (how high). no exact number. less than eisenhower. less a socialism than Eisenhower! wealthiest must pay enough.
O'Malley: top level tax udner Reagan was 70%.
health care rises:
Clinton: Obamacase good. hrmphhrmph. come on. what will YOU do? build on Obamacare and cost issues. more competition in insurance market and down costs for prescription drugs. different than Sanders.
Sanders: Obamacare good. thinks it needs to go further. needs to guarantee health care to everyone as a right, not privilege.
O'Malley: breaking rules.
BREAK.
Border securing/immigration:
O'Malley: talking about border security and not immigration reform for too long. bashes Trump. net immigration from Mexico last year was 0. must allow pathway to citizenship.
Clinton (executive action): president has authority that obama is trying to exercise. path to citizenship allowed.
Sanders (wage issue, immigration, call for $15 min): wages are too low. real income has radically lower. living wages for the future the US. there are consequences for any policy. working people disposable income.
O'Malley: maryland passed living wage?
Sanders: Living wage good.
Clinton: $12 national minimum wage.
DOG FIGHT.
BREAK:
whoa. lots of breaks this time.
O'Malley isn't doing a bad job of tripping Clinton. IDK how effective it is, but he's tripping her.
Clinton (can she be trusted because she got money from wall street): yes I can trusted really. uh huh. claims aggressive. shadow banking.
Sanders: Clinton answer not good enough.
I just got done with the call.
What happened?
dang it.
I'll check out the replay on youtube later.
Sanders: let's kill ISIS, let's fix the economy. corrupt campaign finance.
Clinton: root out violent jihadism. Will lay out what to do to stop terrorism with allies.
O'Malley: We can adapt and with others to kill the terrorists. Fresh approach for policy.
IS flight is going badly, losing ground:
Clinton: IS must be defeated. wah. good grief. US will not fight IS directly. Help, but support, not American on ground. blames BUSH. Then blames Iraqi leadership. Says wanted to equip syrian rebels. NOT America's fight.
O'Malley critique: This is America's fight. Must be with collaboration. IS is evil. failure of human intelligence. role in world is be strong at home, but also to confront evil in the world. america must rise to the occasion.
Sanders: climate change greatest threat even than IS. The bulk of the responsibility is our fault, invasion of iraq caused this. US cannot do this alone. Lead international coalition inclusive of muslim nations. Iraq invasion worst foreign policy decision in recent history.
Clinton: mumble, mumble, terrorism. iraq invasion was mistake, but she still voted for it.
Sander criticism of sec state: disagreement with clinton. regime change bad. sanders is more conservative?!
O'Malley: needs better spies.
Clinton: defensive. this is complicated. blahblah. US doesn't have a role in many of the Middle East conflicts. this is complex esp in middle east.
Sanders: ME very complicated, but with coalition needs to have Iran and other muslim war. brushing over differences between sunnis and shiites.
Clinton: being unfair to jordan. others like turkey need to clear up where they stand.
Libya, day after lesson:
Clinton: Did have a plan. but what out happened after? I'd say she didn't think it through well. She's sounding like the Friedman Gap guy.
O'Malley: Libya a mess, Iraq is a mess. Afghanistan is a mess. Syria is a mess. US has greatest military. bad at rebuilding nations.
Clinton: we did a BIG investment (but a shitty job).
Sanders: long term consequences, PTSD and harmed soldiers. Do NOT turn back on soldiers.
Rubio on radical islam:
Clinton: wank. can't handle radical islam label. cannot understand IS or extremists.
Sanders: term isn't important. groups want to go back to pre modern systems.
O'Malley: should be called radical jihadis. American muslims are our first line of defense.
French President called this act of war, not declare war on IS:
Clinton: have authorization for war on terrorism, not comfortable though for president to work without congress.
Refugees:
Sanders: most powerful military. less than 10% on terrorism. anti nukes. major reform. more cost effective. cold war is over. OMG. this is stupid. THe problem here is the strategic holiday is over. stupid.
Sanders (refugees): moral requirement to help.
O'Malley: 65k refugees. calls IS ISIL. we can make room. war has changed. more special ops.
Clinton (how to screen refugees to keep them safe): 65k if we can screen. do need to take a look a hard look at defense budget. challenges in south china sea. problems with russia. drone sub nuclear weapon cited (see tomorrow's blog here!)
BREAK.
Sanders seems to have missed the fact the world changed AGAIN with it comes to the military situation. Clinton mentions Russia but doesn't mention Ukraine. the Donbass war is heating up again (artillery, etc) and she's talking about a drone sub as the thing to worry about. Yes, its a worry, but they are fighting on the ground.
Clinton's comment that this is NOT america's fight is a bad sound bite.
Financial squeeze on middle class:
Clinton (how to pay for social improvements): not middle class do not pay! good gawd. the real incomes haven't increased since *1975* lady. will tax rich and be fiscal responsible.
O'Malley (how to pay): raise sales tax. raised income tax for rich. claims best schools in country. eliminate entitlement: lower income for rich and capital gains.
Sanders: redistribution of wealth in a bad way from middle class to 1%. end corporate loopholes. tax on wall street speculation. (how high). no exact number. less than eisenhower. less a socialism than Eisenhower! wealthiest must pay enough.
O'Malley: top level tax udner Reagan was 70%.
health care rises:
Clinton: Obamacase good. hrmphhrmph. come on. what will YOU do? build on Obamacare and cost issues. more competition in insurance market and down costs for prescription drugs. different than Sanders.
Sanders: Obamacare good. thinks it needs to go further. needs to guarantee health care to everyone as a right, not privilege.
O'Malley: breaking rules.
BREAK.
Border securing/immigration:
O'Malley: talking about border security and not immigration reform for too long. bashes Trump. net immigration from Mexico last year was 0. must allow pathway to citizenship.
Clinton (executive action): president has authority that obama is trying to exercise. path to citizenship allowed.
Sanders (wage issue, immigration, call for $15 min): wages are too low. real income has radically lower. living wages for the future the US. there are consequences for any policy. working people disposable income.
O'Malley: maryland passed living wage?
Sanders: Living wage good.
Clinton: $12 national minimum wage.
DOG FIGHT.
BREAK:
whoa. lots of breaks this time.
O'Malley isn't doing a bad job of tripping Clinton. IDK how effective it is, but he's tripping her.
Clinton (can she be trusted because she got money from wall street): yes I can trusted really. uh huh. claims aggressive. shadow banking.
Sanders: Clinton answer not good enough.
I just got done with the call.
What happened?
dang it.
I'll check out the replay on youtube later.
1 comment:
Thanks once again for the live blog! It's fun to read your reactions and highlights.
I wonder when people will learn that arming the "moderate rebels" is just adding gasoline to the fire. Sure, some of them may use those weapons for the purposes we intend them to use them, but they are their own people, and they sure as heck can use them for purposes we don't intend. Let alone ISIS can be smuggled those weapons which are now way out of our control. Basically, arming "moderate rebels" is arming ISIS as far as I see. A monster fully of our own creation. And Clinton wants to continue a policy that has so remarkably failed? Failed to stop Assad, failed to stop ISIS (which was born out of the rebellion against Assad that we--and undoubtedly Russia too since they rely so much on weapons sales--armed). What has it succeeded at, besides leaving Syria a wasteland?
Sanders at least sounds like someone who can be persuaded by reason, even if he's hopelessly naive at the moment (or rather living in the past 90's era and not caught up with the world times), but Clinton not so much--way too shackled by rhetoric to adapt, acknowledge failed policies when they happen, or change course. Can't have that in a leader.
Guess we'll see who wins the Democratic nomination, and who the Republic, but it all still seems up in the air.
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