Tuesday, October 13, 2015

The Democratic Debate

I'm going to see about live blogging the debate.  We'll see how it goes.

17:42 PT: huh.  I didn't think the republican debates did a rendition of the star spangled banner.  Pandering to the patriotic side of things?  We're more patriotic than the republicans?  huh.

17:48 PT:

Chaffee intro:  Like his snark.

Webb intro: yup, a marine.

O'Malley: feels like a politician.

Sanders: he's definitely got fire and started firing immediately.

Clinton: why am I hearing the song 'smooth operator,' starting to get some fire towards the end.

18:00 PT: Flip flopping for Clinton question.  Clinton changes her opinion based on what she learns.  She doesn't do a chameleon for political expediency.  She's sounding a LOT like a politician though.  She says she's a progressive.

18:03 PT: Sanders, how can a socialist win?  um.  Is that stat true?  I agree about the 1% getting more than most, but...I dislike bad stats.  Not a capitalist.

Clinton jumps in!

Sanders clarifies he's for entrepreneurs, not the 1%.

Chaffee: stayed with the issues, but changed party as the parties changed.

18:08 PT: O'Malley slammed for mayor and the "explosion" in Baltimore.  Claims he's good guy.  Zero tolerance policy called out.  He replies things got better and was bad in 2003, but got better since.  Not sure I buy it.

18:11 PT: Webb: affirmative action for african americans is good.  Not for diversity programs that do not include poor whites.

18:12 PT: gun control.  Sanders: really for gun control, has D- from NRA, ban for assault rifles, etc.  Clarifies brady bill stance.

Clinton: Sanders too wimpy on guns.  Stand against NRA.  slams Sanders for brady bill.

Sanders responds: gun control good.  no gun show loop holes, mental help important, strawman purchases

O'Malley: actually done gun control legislation.  calling out colorado family for mass shooting in Aurora.  oy.  Talking about using a family for political points.

Sanders again: bring people together around common sense gun control. (common sense isn't, senator sanders)

O'malley: counters sanders, calls Sanders pandering.

Sanders:  O'Malley pandering.

Webb:  two issues here in gun control, one who should NOT get guns badly done.   must respect tradition of gun ownership.

Chaffee: damnit, stop using the phrase common sense, guys.  geez.  blames gun lobby.  wants to find common ground.

O'Malley: NRA lied about gun control laws.

18:22 PT: Russia!

Clinton: oh come on.  Do you really think Putin was NOT in charge when Medvedev was president?  gaaaaah.  *head desk*head desk*head desk*

Sanders: syria quagmire.   will do everything not get involved with Syria.  period.  Arabs should lead not putting american ground troops.

Chaffee on Iraq & Clinton: Pokes Sanders, but uses his comment to slap Clinton (verbally).  Questions Clinton's judgement.

Clinton: Obama values her judgement.  No american troops on the ground, wants arabs doing the ground work, but worries about ISIS.

Sanders: no for the no fly zone in Syria.  against past middle east wars.  wants to follow Obama.  Voted for Kosovo, Afghanistan for force, must work in coalitions.

O'Malley: Iraq bad, lying.  Avoiding answering Clinton as a hawk.  Supports Obama.  against no fly zone.

Webb: gets testy.

Clinton: O'Malley endorsed her in 2008. no fly zone.  wants to force Russia to table. wants a political solution.

Webb:  Russia in syria because Iraq invasion, arab spring and iran nuclear deal bad.  China more important than Syria and China.  Hawk against China.  anemic response from crowd.

Sanders:  Putin will regret what he's doing.  Thinks Putin regrets Crimea, Ukraine.  THAT WAS A STUPID COMMENT.

Clinton on Webb's comment about Libya: everyone worked together on Libya, but won't lead.  American soldiers not on the ground.  Not even special forces?  hrm.  diplomats need to go to dangerous places.

O'Malley:  we failed in benghazi, need spies.

Webb: benghazi should not the point, but Libya because president didn't ask for permission from congress and because america had no real interests there.

Webb can sanders be good commander in chief: sanders was legal, voters can choose.  Webb best for

Sanders: Webb a friend.  worked together.  Opposed Vietnam war, but not the soldiers in the war.  Not a pacifist.  supported Afghanistan.  supports air strikes in Syria.  war should be the last result.

chaffe: Iran deal not for russia's reason.

webb iran deal was a signal we are accepting iran as a nuclear power.  encouraged russians.

greatest threat? 

Chaffee greatest threat is middle

O'Malley climate change and iran.

Clinton nuclear weapons spread.

Sanders: climate change.

Webb: China.

ok.  break and personal commentary.

Clinton seems like a pole.

Sanders feels like a bull dog.  I worry about some of his positions.  Some of his domestic ones are very good.

Chaffe, meh.

Webb: still a marine.

O'malley: who again?  I mean, double meh.

18:46 PT: Clinon on the email silliness.  Testifying soon.  the committee on Benghazi going to backfire now on the republicans.  $4.5 million spent on the committee.  Wants to talk about other things.

Sanders:  Clinton is right.  People sick and tired of hearing about the emails.  Slams media.  Talk real issues.

Clinton's laugh.  ugh.  Not a good time.

Chaffee: emails are real issue!  feels clinton not ethical.

Clinton slams Chaffee by dismissing the chance to respond.

O'Malley: debates allow for emails being pushed away.

Race in America:

Black lives matter or all lives matter?

Sanders: Black lives matter.  racist must be stopped, institutional racist must stop, end mass incarceration.

O'Malley: Black lives matter does matter (hmmm).  reform criminal justice system.

Clinton: republicans stopped obama.  reform policing.  end mass incarceration.  Improve lives of all children.

Webb: snarks.  every life matters.  reform justice system.  semi supports black lives matter.

Income equality:

Sanders:  attacks bush.  oh come on.  I agree, but talk fixing, not looking back.   ok.  I wonder what my democratic friends think of the free trade comments.

Clinton:  yes, its bad.  Put a democrat in the white house.

O'Malley: agrees with Sanders, but wants more banking reform.

Clinton: banks reform.  shadow banking in the US?  erm

Sanders:  Clinton not as tough.  Wall Street corrupt.  fought against deregulation in 90s.  wants to break up big banks.

Clinton:  blahblahblah.  pole speak.

Sanders:  Slams Clinton.

Clinton:  parries.

O'Maley: clinton weak, changes positions.

Clinton people learn, change. 

my feed for the debate went dark.  grr.

19:09:  tax reform?

College Affordability:

Sanders: everyone needs to have a college degree now, just do it like we do for high school.

Clinton:  refi student loans.  oh good grief.  no tuition for public schools, must work 10 hours per weeek.  Didn't answer question, wants to expand social security for poor, not in general.

Sanders: expand social security and get rid of SS payment cap.  ss solvent through 2061.


Sanders:  voted against legislation at the time, for semi slavery guest workers.

Clinton: every child should get health care.  wants to offer buy-in for obamacare.

O'Malley:  for immigration reform

Webb:  No problem with illegal immigrants to getting obamacare plus immigration reform.

Clinton: slams republicans.  she's making same mistakes as 2008.  in state tuition for illegals.

Veterans affairs:

Webb: vet healthcare, helped.

Patriot Act:

Chaffee: warrant needed, reform needed,

Clinton:  no regrets.  Bush corrupted it.

Sanders: voted against, shutdown current NSA listening.

Feed stuck.

Webb: collect but destroy information.  yeeeaaaaaaah right.

Not a third term of Obama:

Chaffee:  end the wars, no more Syria.

O'Malley: protect middle class, banking reform again.

Clinton:  first woman president.  blahblah.  check my plans.  got a point, but still not directly answering.

Sanders:  respects Obama, but end corporate america power.

Webb: attacks Sanders congress not going to pay for Sanders agenda, got a point.  executive authority curtailed.

Sanders on revolution: sounding lefty, but telling some truth, but...

Chaffee: green energy.  eh? price of tea in china moment there, dude.

a break:  whew.

Ok.  I'm far more hawk than most on the stage.  I have some sympathy with sanders POV, but webb made a good point.  can sanders convince congress to participate?  Or will a Sanders presidency be a waste of time?  How good is he at working across the isle?

No coronation (19:34):

Clinton:  woman president the ultimate outsider.  I'm the awesome.  really.

O'Malley: already had this conversation.  no coronation.  new leadership.

Clinton: no voting for me for my last name.  Nope.  has nothing to do with it.  nuh uh.  really.  gah. 

Sanders: people frustrated.  vote for me.  booyah.  I'm not rich.  No superpac.  woo woo  woo!

Climate Change:

O'Malley: I have a plan.  100% clean electric grid.  engineering challenge from the get go.  um.  I think I see some regulatory issues here and some wishful thinking.

Feed stuck.  grr.

Sanders: dang.  fossil fuel companies funding the republicans.

Clinton to respond but my feed jammed again.

Look this one ought to be easy.  End coal use first, then move onto oil.  finally natural gas.  its not going to happen in a lifetime.  GLOBAL WARMING IS INEVITABLE.

feed back.

Paid maternity:

Clinton: paid maternity.  how to pay?  Republicans to blame.  we can afford by making the wealthy pay.

Sanders:  all major countries allow maternity.  embarrassed for this.  this is doable.

O'Malley: expanded family leave.  can do this.

Recreational Pot:

Sanders: would vote for recreation marijuana.

Clinton: only medical marijuana.  stop imprisoning for MJ use.

Compromising with Republicans:

Sanders: yes, republicans are being obstructionist.  only way to work with them is vote them out.


ok.  that tells me Sanders will not be able to work with the current republicans.  not sure it would be possible anyways, but LBJ promised, cajoled and threatened to get what he wanted.  He was a loathsome man sure as shoot did some big and good things.  Surely one of these political turkeys can use their quills to get the republicans to break ranks.  good grief.

Final Question:

Which enemy are you most proud of:

Chaffee: coal lobby.

O'Malley: NRA.

Clinton: NRA, insurance company, iranians, republicans.

Sanders: wall street pharmecuetical industry

Webb: soldier who tried to kill him.  I'm a marine.

Final statements:

Chaffee:  vote me!  I'm honest!  best qualified.  no scandals!

Webb: don't believe the promises and rhetoric.   I'm a marine.  grmph.  grmph. But also can cut threw and make things work.  I'm a leader.

O'Malley: we are better than the republicans.  he's slamming the repugnants about the R debates.  Damnit, he's right.  As a Republican, I'm hanging my head in shame here.

Sanders: we are a great country, but we have serious problems.  Nobody can fix it unless people stand up to 1%.  Fund me!  No SuperPAC here.

Clinton:  Real debate here, where the republicans are a joke in their debates.  Who has the best ability and track record.  Support me.  Pol ending

Ok.  Sanders did a good job.  Better than I thought he would.  I worry he won't be able to get things done though with any even moderate opposition.

This race is between him and Clinton.  The believer and the money.  The others are also runs.  IMO.

Good luck and good night.


3de8af9a-85a1-11e4-b784-0b02f2c1f23a said...

Good luck! Probably gunna need it.

3de8af9a-85a1-11e4-b784-0b02f2c1f23a said...

Loving this live blogging so far! Remarkably amusing.

3de8af9a-85a1-11e4-b784-0b02f2c1f23a said...

Thanks for the great feed and commentaries. Quite the mess. I am really having trouble seeing anyone to vote for on any side right now, but gotta figure out someone. Every time any of the candidates says something sensible, they seem to follow it up with something jarringly wacky. This is going to be a long election cycle.

Will Baird said...

Geez. I like a lot of what Sanders says domestically but I worry about paying for it. I also worry about him working with congress.

I am more hawk than anyone up there and if Clinton really believes Putin was Not in control any time since he first became acting president, more than worrisome I say.